episode 17: ROWENA PHILLIPS, SKI INSTRUCTOR

23 Feb 2023
I sat down with Rowena Phillips to talk about her experience in the ski industry working as an instructor and cofounding Matterhorn Diamonds ski & snowboard school in the ski town of Zermatt, Switzerland. She shares with us how she took what was once her holiday hobby and turned it into her livelihood. The passion that took Rowena to the Swiss Alps some 20 years ago is clearly still a huge part of her day-to-day. However, she does speaks about managing expectations when "living your dream"; addresses the challenges of making a sustainable living in a seasonal job; and shares the less sexy side of ski town living. She also shared some down-to-earth, or what she calls "uncool", advice for anyone looking to make a career out of ski teaching. 
Photo credits go to  Ross Woodhall and Patricio Salerno

BEST PLACE TO FOLLOW ROWENA AND LEARN MORE ABOUT HER:

www.matterhorn-diamonds.com

SHOWNOTES:

* Music by AudioCoffee from Pixabay
* Featured in this podcast: Rowena Phillips * Mentioned in this episode:
  • British Association of Snowsports Instructors: BASI
  • Lynn Sharpe Mill: bio
  • Chemmy Alcott: bio
* References: * Complete our Audience Poll and help us get to know you, the listener, better.


TRANSCRIPT

I'm Charlaine Jannerfeldt, and you're listening to About that outdoor job.

" There are an awful lot of days that it doesn't feel like you're living the dream anymore. You are, but you know, this is also just day to day. It becomes your day to day. I think that's important to remember that it doesn't mean that the dream is no more or that you know it's still just a bit of life. And that doesn't mean that something's gone wrong. It just means that, you know, you gotta take the rough and smooth. "

This is Rowina Phillips, ski instructor and co-founder of Mattehorn Diamonds Ski and Snowboarding School based in the iconic Zermatt ski resort in the Swiss Alps.

Making a living is a ski instructor, isn't a given. It's seasonal work. It's infamously known for its low pay. It has a fairly high injury risk. So how do you make a career out of it? I was especially curious to find out why Rowena chose that route after nearly a decade working in the corporate world in London.

" The aim, I suppose, even when I was younger, was to work in a ski resort. I always wanted to but it felt like a bit of a dream. "

Where did that dream come from? When did the mountains and skiing become a thing?

" I was very lucky. So I grew up in Munich as a kid. We spent three or four years there when I was two or three. And honestly, memories of going to the closest ski hill from where we were living and sliding around on the snow there with my dad. Really very happy memories. And honestly, that same rush of being on the snow then, it just hasn't changed. "

But you didn't choose skiing straight outta school, did you? You first headed to university.

" I did a languages degree, French and German, in London and also kind of thought, well, this is good. You know, this is all focused towards, you know, potentially going and working in the Alps or at least the Swiss or the Austrian Alps, I suppose, which is also my experience of skiing so far. But I also like to say that I was canny enough at the time. I think it was probably luck more than judgment, but I got a job working in a bank in London because I kind of thought, well, look, I need to have like a fallback if the skiing thing doesn't work anyway. And it would probably make sense to have a little bit of money in my pocket before I start doing a million ski seasons because, you know, it's famously not particularly well paid or at least, you know, not something you're gonna be able to retire on. So I kind of wanted to have that backstop but also I just wanted to learn a few different skills. And I kind of thought, you know, working in the city and in business, I enjoyed it as well. I mean, it's not that the only thing that I like doing is skiing. Everyone you know, has a variety of different strengths to their bow normally. Things that they enjoy and I really liked working in that environment. After working in the bank for a while, I moved to an IT consultancy and they had offices in Frankfurt so I was able to go over there and set up more of the Frankfurt office and live abroad. Which I suppose is the other side of it which is exciting about doing ski seasons. It's generally, I say generally, especially as a British person, you're generally also living in a country that isn't your own. So that's already quite exciting.

So that ticked a lot of boxes for me for quite a long time. But I found myself, even though I was enjoying what I was doing, I was spending more and more of my holiday, just spending weeks in the Alps. So eventually I went and spoke to my boss and I said " Look, I think I need to take a sabbatical.How would that be?" And they were amazing; very flexibly; very open to it. So I took a season off and I worked in Zermatt. I came back from that and I said "Actually, yeah, this is me. This, this bug isn't going away." So they very kindly sort of transitioned so I was able to work summers contracting for them in London. And then seasons in Zermatt and that basically developed into being here full-time. "

3:42
As you've said, Rowena, you were really lucky that your employer in London was open to you initially taking a sabbatical and then offering you contractual work in the summers to make the transition sustainable for you. But I wonder, what did your family and friends think about this? And of you being abroad?

" Yeah, I think I've been quite lucky because as a family we've moved around quite a bit and we lived abroad when I was small as I mentioned. So that's meant that it doesn't feel so much of a wrench from where the rest of my family and friends are living because we've all grown up with this slightly itinerant lifestyle, let's say. And so all my family are, in some shape or form, used to being abroad, either living or or visiting. "

And in your preparation to make this transition, did you qualify as a ski instructor before heading out to Zermatt for your first ski season?

" No I hadn't. I'd skied a lot but I hadn't qualified. I'd looked into various governing bodies. I'd looked into the Austrian system for a while because as far as I was concerned, as a kid, that was, you know, the Austrian ski instructors were the way to go. That was my experience. But then, you know, looking at it a little bit more, I found BASI, which is the British Association of Snows Sport instructors, and it made sense to me the way that their methodology was in terms of the way that they taught you how to become an instructor. So I knew that I had a fair amount of skiing experience behind me but that first season, I knew it'd help cement some of my skills. And also, you know, you do a season, that means that you ski all conditions, all the time. You know you have that opportunity to be able to ski the good days, as well as the bad and the power days, as well as the icy days. So I knew that that was going to be really helpful. And then I signed up to my first level, which is now, the Level One, at the end of that season and took it from there. So there was an awful lot of new stuff to learn and it was interesting as well because, you know, you sort of consider yourself a good skier. And then you become a ski instructor and quite rightly, they generally take you apart and put you back together, which is really interesting. So you're actually, apart from anything else, you start to understand what it is that you are doing and the way that skiing works which, generally speaking, you didn't, you don't, at least I didn't understand before that. So that was great. "

SnowSkool, a British ski instructor training organization, surveyed their graduates and ski instructors around the world and share their results in an effort to answer the question of how much you can actually earn teaching skiing. No surprise, it varies tremendously based on experience, qualification levels, and geography. In general, the salary earned by ski instructors is higher in Europe than the rest of the world. But even in Europe, there are lots of disparities. If you're an experienced instructor, France has the best pay. But if you're a rookie, Switzerland pays more because of higher costs of living. They report top end pay at $75 an hour, and the lowest at $14. So the question I really want to ask Rowena is can you turn ski instructing into a serious career choice that is financially viable?

6:47
" It works because I also run the ski school. So being a ski instructor on its own, I mean you, you could make that work and you could string that out probably over the full season. You just have to work incredibly hard over the winter. I mean, obviously you're trying to earn a year's worth of wages in six months which is great, but also for me, that was never going to be the ideal. I don't like sitting still. I don't like not doing anything. It's fun to be learning new things and it's fun to make a difference and to create something. But the other side of it is that if you work so hard in the winter and you keep your head down and you're ski teaching all the time, you lose a little bit of that "I love living in a ski resort and I love skiing" if you are only ever teaching, "

Could you tell us more about how you came to co-found and direct Matt Mahorn Diamond Ski in snowboarding?

" I started running the ski school, I guess it was, gosh, I think seven or eight years ago when the current owner was looking to step out. He and I had worked together in a previous ski school and he knew that we had similar views on the way that we thought a ski school should ideally work in a resort like Zermatt, which is obviously fairly particular compared to a lot of other ski resorts. So we arranged between us the transition of the ownership of the business from him to me. And we've been able to build it up since then which has been fantastic. And it's turned into basically, I suppose, a year round job. So in the winter, I still ski teach a lot but I'm also running the school. And then obviously in the summertime, you have a lot of that other administrative side of the business, as well as, you know, the accounting and the recruitment and the marketing and everything else that needs to happen in the off season. And obviously, of course, also a little bit of time out. So that way has made it work for me to be a viable, year round hobby, I suppose.

Could you actually make your living from teaching skiing and running the ski school?

" Yeah, it took a couple of years. I mean, the school was quite small when I took it over so it didn't really have the wearable to be able to support me all year round. I was living in Zermatt full-time already by that stage so I took some work with some local businesses over the summertime for, I think, a couple of summers, maybe three. And to be able to sort of support the school's development without me being too much of a drain on the finance. "

So what's a typical week for you, Rowena, during the ski season?

" I tend to wake up pretty early and I'll sort of spend an hour or two on some sort of email communications and just making sure that the bookings are all set, you know, to having to look at the financials. The general sort of background planning that needs to happen and the strategy. So I have a couple of hours on that. Then I will be teaching probably a half day. I try not to sort of fill myself up too much with bookings. Partly, you know, I wanna make sure that the team has the lion share. But also I don't wanna burn myself out with teaching and then, you know, that'd be the end of my day. So, up teaching, really nice to see what the conditions are like. Lovely to meet new people. It's great to see the other instructors out on the snow. That's, I mean, that's also really important, but it's valuable to me and it makes me happy to be out on the snow. And I really enjoy teaching. That's a really fun part of the day. And then I have to, you know, that's a proper sort of switch off from the office side. As you say, I probably have my ski instructor hat on when I'm out on the slopes. And then back home to the home office or to the co-working office that we use in Zermatt. So catching up with a few people, having some discussions about other things that are going on in town and sort of just trying to keep my finger on the pulse of what's happening in general. Super important. Otherwise, I'll sort of end up squirrelled away in my office quite happily. Generally, catching up with instructors towards the end of the day; all clients, you know, after the end of the ski. "

And though Rowena made the dream come true, she isn't taking it for granted even after 20 some years in Zermatt.

What still gets you excited about the lifestyle and livelihood you've created for yourself in the ski industry?

" The very basic answer would be that I get to ski every day which is just wonderful. You know, if I have some work to do but I don't have any teaching, I'll often go up for a few runs first thing and go and grab a coffee. And sort of catch up with a few folk on the mountain and then come down and start my work day. And that, I mean, that's wonderful. And I, you know, I'm not taking it for granted. And it's great to have that as a sort of "I can do that every day" or go for a ski tour or something like that first thing to and get some fresh air. "

11:08
It actually sounds like you might be a guest that spends quite some of your work time being outdoors.If you had to put a number to it, what percentage would it be?

" I would say 50%. You know, I'm not ski teaching every day but it's important for me that I'm in my ski boots on the mountain, you know,, a good chunk of the time. Otherwise, what am I doing? "

And though Rowena is passionate about her job, she's also candid that it has its challenges. None more important than the outdoor condition.

" The weather in Zermatt can be quite challenging at the moment. It was minus 21 thing this morning so this week is particularly cold. And, you know, we're not the only ski resort that gets cold weather. I'm fully, fully aware but that can be quite challenging depending on the level of the clients that you are with. Naturally, they're gonna be working harder than you are on the snow whilst they're learning to ski. So you can get pretty cold. And that's, I would say, that was the thing that I found hardest when I first started out as an instructor. Obviously, over time and with technical advances, there are all kinds of things that help with that now. So, you know, heated socks, hand warmers, heated gloves, and all the rest of it. Sometimes even the conditions in Zermatt from a snow perspective can be challenging. We're not famous for getting a huge amount of snow here. So we get clients who want to ski off piste and you know, they might come from Colorado and they live in Aspen and then they come over here and you go "Well actually, you know, we haven't really had more than 20 centimeters of snow in the last couple of weeks." And they look, they always look a bit crestfallen. And then that's quite, in terms of managing their expectations, that can be tricky. So part of my job, actually with my, ski school owner's hat on, is to make sure that we manage client's expectations from that perspective so that we make sure that those lovely people that come all the way from somewhere that's far more snowy, understand what they're going to expect when they get to Zermatt but also understand that they're here for the full experience. So we make sure that we can provide them that; so that it balances that out. But yeah, I would say honestly the challenges can be, can literally be, the conditions that you are dealing with every day on the mountain. "

What about summer season? Do you find the quiet vibe of a ski town in the summer somewhat stifling?

" Yeah, of course. There are a lot of people who aren't here in the summertime and the resort is naturally a lot quieter in the summer. I do spend a lot of time traveling around in the summertime. I don't spend all my time in Zermatt. Honestly, for me it is about the snow. "

And as a ski instructor and ski school founder, have you had to deal with hurdles because of your gender? After all, the ski industry is still male dominated.

" I honestly find this quite a difficult question to answer. I think I've always felt pretty comfortable and confident in the job that I've been doing. I think partly because I'm quite risk averse so I won't jump into anything new until I know that I'm going to be able to do a good job in whatever it is. And so as such, I think that's helped me to push past a lot of those issues that otherwise I might have experienced. It's hard to tell sometimes whether or not this is something that you are feeling intrinsically or whether or not this is something that's happening to you from the outside. So having that confidence in what I'm doing has meant that I haven't. It may well have been happening but I've just sort of ignored it. Kinda kept on going. And I think I was brought up to think that I can do just as much as anybody else can, irrespective of whether or not I'm a female. So I think that's meant that it's rarely been something that I've come up against. And, and if it has, they've been quite isolated incidents. I think I was probably quite lucky that it was a fairly gradual transition that I made from the job that I was doing before to what I'm doing now. So I had enough time to get used to that and I was able to slightly take into account the environment, the surroundings that were changing over that period of time as well. So I think I was quite lucky in that if I was trying to do the same thing maybe 10 years earlier, I think I would've come up against maybe some slightly more difficult situations. But as it is, I've not experienced too much of a discrepancy I would have to say. "

15:22
Even before becoming a ski instructor, you were working in male-dominated industries of Finance and IT. Did this play a part in preparing you to have the confidence for this environment?

" Having said all of those things, and I do think that, yeah, I think I was quite lucky and I do think that I was well set up for this sort of environment. I think that isn't necessarily the case for other women that are coming through the system, so it's important to me to be able to support them and that's something that I have learned over the last few years. And I really want to make sure that I do support women who come through the ski industry. "

Is there an attitude or mindset you saw in successful women in the ski industry that shaped you and your journey?

" You know, when I think about the female skiers or females who work in the ski industry who are role models for me and who I talk to and, you know, we will have discussions about things. They're all, I mean, you sort of hear this very strong female "whatever". And there's something that's the strong character and it's that confidence in your ability. That it's you, it can't be sort of taken for granted, I think. And I think the people that I think of, for example Lynn Mill or Chemmy Alcott, they're super strong personality. They're very confident in what they do, but you know, also very, still very much a woman, which is very cool to see. So I think there's a little bit of that in there and it's a little bit intangible, but it's nice to see that you're allowed to be confident and you're not gonna be labeled as brash or you're not going to be labeled as pushy. You could just be comfortable in your own ability. "

Part of the mission of the series, women and Outdoor Jobs is to share the stories and experiences of women like Rowena who've successfully made the outdoors they're living so that women who want to achieve that for themselves can benefit from their learnings and experience. What's one of the traits that makes a successful ski instructor in your experience?

" You have to love teaching and I mean this with love, but you have to be okay answering the same questions and saying the same thing often day in and day out. You know, quite often we get people who've come here for the very first time, possibly from somewhere very far away. They've possibly not even seen snow before. So there's gonna be a ton of stuff that you are going to be talking about that you'll be talking to every client about. You've gotta be okay with that. You know? You've got to be able to basically almost absorb their own enthusiasm for being in the mountain for the first time and be able to talk about things from that perspective. You've gotta be okay with teaching on the beginner's area. You know, an awful lot of the time that's what the majority of people come to the ski resorts to learn. They come to learn the basics. The bread and butter stuff is what the majority of us do day in, day out. So yeah, the passion for the sport and passion for teaching, I would say is, is pretty fundamental. "

And what's the best bit of advice you've received that's helped you succeed?

" I had a mentor when I was in London when I was working for the IT consultancy who was just fantastic and his name was Justin Bolsen. I remember him telling me once that you just have to work harder than the competition. That is, it's an unsexy way of talking about it but if you put the hours in that the other guy can't and if you do a better thing than the other guy can, then you'll do better. And sometimes it really is that simple. It's not always that simple. And obviously there's an awful lot of other things that need to be taken into account but it helps a lot. "

18:45
And what advice would you share with someone interested in ski instructing as a job?

" I would want to be as encouraging as I could be but I would want to make sure that they've thought everything through. It's a real passion that you want to follow, and the danger with that is that you put everything else on hold because you feel that because it's a passion, you therefore must follow it. And everything else should fall into place. And I think that actually rarely happens. I think the people make their own luck and I think it's important that you. Do figure out how you're gonna make it work and you do have a backup because apart from anything else, that means that you can then properly dive in and be passionate about it and learn what it is that you need to learn. Knowing that you have something that's going to be there if something does change and your plans change, and even if it works out for you, but something else happens, you have a sort of a change in your. What you're doing in your life because you meet someone who happens to live somewhere where there is no snow and you wanna go and be with them over there. Let's say something as straightforward as that, to be able to have another string to your bow and to know that you've thought through all of the background stuff that's going to be able to support this passion that you want to follow. I think that for me, that's the most important thing, which again, it's not very cool or sexy is it? But having that for me gives me that sort of comfort level that I know that I can carry on pursuing things that I want to be enthusiastic about and enjoy. "

And I couldn't finish this interview without finding out what was one of Rowena's most cherished ski adventures she's had in Zermatt.

" Yeah, there are things that I've done that I definitely wouldn't have experienced had I not been a skiing instructor or at least had the opportunity to since living in Zermatt. So staying up in a mountain hut overnight with some friends at 3500 meters. Which you know, that's not easy to make for a good night's sleep necessarily. It definitely had nothing to do with the very large, very wine heavy dinner that we'd had up at the lodge on that evening. You know, seeing the stars from that altitude when there's no light around and watching the sunset over the mountains and then waking up first thing and having first tracks before anyone else has even thought about getting up onto the lift is a really amazing experience. That's just, that's really wonderful. "

Thanks to Rowena for taking the time to talk with me during the busy ski season. You can find Rowena on Instagram @matterhorndiamons. Other resources are listed in our show notes.

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You can support our podcast by subscribing and leaving us a review. A review makes our podcast more visible so others can discover it as. This episode was produced and hosted by me, Charlaine Jannerfeldt.